The Framing Effect: Is The Grass Greener on The Other Side

This is the light inside. I'm Jeffrey.

Be sicker a picture. They're often said to be worth a

thousand words, but what happens when a part of this picture is

inaccurate or even missing how things are presented has a

significant impact on how we see them forming our frame of

reference, most common framing drawing attention to the

positive gain or negative association with an option.

We're susceptible to this sort of framing because Cuz as humans

we avoid loss and at times we develop blind spots, think about

this popular photography metaphor behind the concept.

A Frame focuses attention on the picture.

It surrounds different characteristics drawing out

different aspects of the work. How someone frames in issue

influences how we see things today?

We look at how the way things are presented determines, what

our brains choose to see and how our emotions and memories of the

past shape, and inform this perspective.

Active tune in to find out how when we return to the light

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It's with the myth mobile app. As a neurodivergent mother of a

young neurodivergent son carry Kirk Ella's life often poses

uniquely difficult challenges. Everyday tasks, can often become

daunting charged with emotions and stressful at the age of

five. Her son, Gavin struggles with

having some intense and difficult sensory processing

issues. Even the most basic of tasks

like getting ready for school. Proved to be uniquely

challenging for the entire Emily.

There's so many stories running through my head about examples

that I could share that even just happened this morning with

my son getting ready for school and the meltdowns and, you know,

it's like I know that I need some more kind of self-care some

more of that time for myself in order to be able to be a stand

for him to be more emotionally calm when he's in that kind of a

state for carry the process of getting out the door with the

kids, a daily battle. To further complicate matters,

carries busy life is already difficult enough.

She's trying to run a business. Hold down the fort at home and

raise her son, whether it's wrestling with Gavin's, desire

to wear, one particular pair of shoes or the comforting finds in

the small handful of short sleeve T-shirts.

That is overly sensitive nervous system can tolerate at times.

She has trouble handling the difficulties and she to finds

herself frustrated yet she has the hope that her child will

grow up to live. A happy and healthy life but

she's also concerned about the Future.

These are a few examples of the hurdles that they face is a

family for most parents. Nothing is more important than a

child's. Future will carry knows that

there are other parents out there, who struggle just as

much. She's determined to find a way

to help them, see that they can make it through, carry secret to

success, her ability to shift the lens, the shapes, our

perspective allowing her to see things in a new light.

So Carrie First and foremost, I'd like to welcome you today.

Thanks for having me. I am so excited to look at this

perspective of the lenses we utilize when viewing the world.

As a busy mom, a solo entrepreneur and creative

photographer. You understand what it means to

be busy with many identities or roles that we have often created

throughout our lives. You also face the challenges

that arise from experiencing neurodiversity as well.

That experience had to present some fairy Daunting challenges.

Could you share with us a little bit about your story?

Okay, sure. So I was diagnosed with bipolar

disorder when I was in my late twenties and because I had

episodes around that and I was hospitalized three times over a

period of 17 years. That had a huge effect on how I

saw myself because that's just you can either look at it from

one perspective or another though.

Eventually thank God. I Arted looking at it from a

perspective of wow look how resilient I am, you know, look

at what I've been through and how you can actually come back

from something like that. And that it's, you know, that's

a perspective that I that I've chosen, thanks to some therapy,

thanks to some personal development work and so really.

When you change the way you look at things, the things that you

look at really do change and it's something dire quote.

So as a result of you working as a He ate a photographer, you've

developed a framework that improves our mental and

emotional well-being, that allows us to challenge or

question or change our view with that lens that we look through

when viewing the world. So let's begin today, by looking

at your perspective on hololens, WE utilized both view ourselves,

and our perspectives shapes the way we experience the world

around us. So yeah, no, no, I love that.

Just low. To say right away about how the

lens that we see ourselves through is really how we are

going to experience everything around us and also how our

self-image. Basically, it's just everything

stems from that and you're either acting from, you know, an

empowered state or a disempowered state, pretty much

all the time. And being aware of your thoughts

is what helps you choose which way you want to go do in this

regard? What are some of the Underlying

factors that you fill shape this perspective.

And why do you feel we might often see the grass is greener

on the other side when we consider differing Frameworks

and perspectives. Well, I feel like, you know,

we're coming from everything, we've experienced all of our

conditioning, and our upbringing, and so many

different influences coming from everywhere.

And I think that the challenge is being in a more of a state of

gratitude can help you. Not be dwelling all the The time

on the grass is always greener on the other side, but we're not

really taught that as young children and once you can start

to shift your perspective and this is all photography speak to

because so much of it relates to that.

So that's how that came about. But when you can shift that

perspective then things start to shift in your life.

Actually, you know, you start to make changes that are real in

your life. So I feel, you know, most of it,

it's a lot of conditioning from, when you're young, you know, I

have a lot of just, I come from a Last family that really

struggled, struggles still a lot.

And so I think that there's always sort of been this little

little voice in my head that that family is going on this

vacation. We're not, you know, this just

things like that that kind of sort of make an imprint when

you're young. And so then, as you get older,

it's about how do you manage those imprints.

From that perspective, it's easy to see our perception is

influenced by various filters blocks.

Limitations that shape, how we Perceive and interpret the world

around us. Some key factors, be your

emotional filters, memory, limitations, cultural and social

filters, and cognitive biases, as examples of much more complex

interactions, right? Yeah.

I think that. And then the piece with

emotional resilience, and of self-awareness, really having

that flexibility of being able to see different sides of things

can really help, not have you be stuck in some sort of pattern?

I think that that's why when we do Then creative and look at the

way that I do my program. It's about looking at the world

around us through metaphors, to do symbolic site.

And so once you start practicing that, for example, when I do a,

my Foundation Workshop is about creating images of nature as a

mindfulness practice, and there's a quote by Virginia.

Woolf she said, I am rooted, but I flow.

So once we get Into a mindfulness more of a, you know,

connecting with all of our senses.

After that, we start to get into a creative Flow State by

creating images based on that, quote, for example, and just

doing that in and of itself can help you start to see different

things in your life differently. From that perspective.

Do you think we sometimes might be uncomfortable with that idea

that we do have an Eden value in operating on patterns?

Yes, definitely I think most people When I admit that then it

feels like, you know, you're not in control of your life, you're

kind of just being conditioned or programmed which I don't

think anybody wants. So that's an ironic relationship

sometimes to ponder. Because in many regards we do

benefit from a healthy relationship from conditioned

response. We have to be somewhat

habituated to wake up in a healthy pattern.

Every day, we have to be somewhat bitch, you waited and

conditioned to show up to work? Work to earn a living.

We have to be conditioned somewhat in a pattern to have

that habit of showing up for others, especially conditioned,

in how we look at how we show up for ourselves.

That's true. There's definitely ways to can,

you know, you can be conditioned in a positive way is and also

active ways. You're so often.

We once again kind of focus that lens in on the limiting

black-and-white of well conditioning in of itself, is

challenging to us. Neat and of itself is somehow

adverse yet. When we look at that other

example, we see where, when we Empower, those patterns of

conditioning, we can work with them to work for our benefit, we

can work with them to move more productively or more healthily

toward that state of flow, right?

That's true and that reminds me of how, you know, what does it

take 30 days to create a positive habit?

I mean I think the reason why would I do through the lens

method is so So accessible is because it's with a smartphone

and so anybody can take pictures with their smartphone and every

most people do it anyway. So it's kind of just using it

intentionally and as a Force for good.

So, it's sort of just changing the habits perspective, you

know? Maybe you already have a habit

of making pictures with your phone, but you don't ever look

at them or, you know, create them intentionally.

But, yeah, I think that just doing some sort of practice in

it whether it's a creative practice or a self-care ritual.

Are things like that, that can really help shift your idea of

what you want to be starts to go in that direction, right?

You can kind of create your own habits and conditioning a firm.

If you will for the, you know, since we're talking about

conditioning. So what rule do you feel from

your perspective carry emotional interactions play in this

process? Well, human interaction and just

human connection is so important to help us get more out of our

heads because we have most of the time.

If we're kind of of ping-pong around in our brains, we can get

some of us can get into that ruminating state or we just see

things in more of a, we don't necessarily see other options or

other perspectives. And when we, when we have that

human connection, I mean, it also helps with oxytocin and

show you those things. And so our emotions are

everything. It's really, you know, energy

and motion, and it's going to affect how what our next action

Tsar. And so, when you can be in a

more, when you can have more of a regulated nervous system when

you when you do things to help you have a regular more

regulated nervous system which you know, there's a lot of

different ways to go about that. But when you have sort of a

balance in your life that helps facilitate that process, then

you have more of a handle kind of on your emotions and your

whether or not you're going to be in more of a reactive state

or more of a open and calm State and so that Is going to affect

what happens next. I mean, I feel like we can talk

about it. So share with us more about that

interaction. Specifically, what are some of

the typical roadblocks? You feel you might run into when

you're interacting with your child?

Well, there's so many because my my child is a, it's a very

wonderful child and he's also a very highly persistent.

Highly emotional, highly intelligent and intense, And so,

my husband and I deal with a lot of emotion, all day every day.

And so, I think that when it can be really challenging,

especially for for someone who has sensory, he also has, he has

some sensory sensitivities. And so, just putting on clothing

answer, really a big challenge in our daily life and everything

kind of, you know, bathing eating everything is hard and so

I also So have some sensory challenges where you know loud

noises bother me and so if he's screaming you know I have to

kind of like takes a breath. So I have to sometimes I have to

leave the room and, you know, I had to take a break but I don't

want to leave him alone with his big feeling.

So there's always a lot, a lot to navigate with that.

And it's really hard. It's really the biggest

challenge of my life at this point, that whole task of Co

regulating with our children is challenging inherently.

Most of us because ultimately, we've grown up in a lot of

regards in environments that don't teach us those skills of

co-regulation that don't mirror and reflect that stake to us.

Yeah, that's so true and it's, you know, I didn't learn I was a

very easygoing kid. I don't think.

I feel like I didn't rock the boat ever.

But my sister on the other hand, was a really challenging kids

and so there was just there was definitely yelling in my house.

There was things that It was, you know, of course, most of the

time if someone wasn't behaving well, one of the kids in my

family to have to go to our room, I never did because I was

perfect little angel by my sister.

They would, they would have to go to their room.

And when you have to go to your room and be alone with your big

feelings, it's actually not good for your nervous system to, to

sort of stuff. You learn that you have to stuff

your feelings down, but that it's not, it's not healthy to

have big feelings. That's a pattern that we can

pick up. A lot of times, I know from my

own experience that we weren't necessarily guided toward that,

understanding of, I see your feelings.

Let's sit with your feelings, let's respect and honor.

You know, let's look at the core reasoning behind that, you know,

that's not the fault, the parenting model but our parents

sometimes did not learn those skills or trade either.

It was go to your room. Now, you see the emotional

interaction, as bad? You see that emotional

interaction is something to avoid.

Avoid. Yeah and also it also reminds me

how it's better to not try to fix it right?

Whatever my son gets very frustrated with things because

he wants to. He's very into building and

designing things but he's only five so he can't always do what

he wants to do and when he gets super frustrated my you know

natural inclination is to want to just do it for him and fix it

so that he doesn't freak out and throw the thing across the room.

But you're not really supposed to be bad because you know,

You're supposed to my understanding is that it's

better to just be supportive of them and where they're going

through, you know, in that regard, looking back at our

conversation, sometimes we learn those emotional filters, as a

part of that process we learned that we filter things, we

selectively look at our emotion, we selectively choose whether or

not emotion has right to exist sometimes, sometimes that

becomes the condition pattern of belief, right.

People believe that it's not going to be angry, which I don't

think is a healthy way to look at it because we, we are human

beings with their soul spectrum of wide range of emotions and

anger is one of them, you know, and it's just how to manage that

how to navigate it rather than just sort of stuffing it down.

Because I really believe that that can cause a lot of

problems. You know, there's a lot of

studies about that how it causes.

A lot of problems in the body. I could relate to that firsthand

because that was one of my core. Trump's growing up in an

environment of unhealthy patterns of traumatic.

Anger, is a traumatic anger because we weren't allowed to

express that and healthy manners because the pattern simply

didn't exist as a result of that I developed fear and shame

around my interactions with emotions in general, even though

we had the opposite of that, where the men in our family were

very easy to move to tears. Very sympathetic.

Eric very empathetic, they also had that unhealthy relationship

with anger. The unhealthy outbursts, the

unhealthy Expressions that didn't have that emotional

competency to regulate. Yeah, I feel like there's such a

huge, you know, we need so much more support around that for a

parent and some verbs for kids because especially because the

next generation is following in the footsteps, maybe of not,

knowing, how to deal with emotions.

And then some cases Just choosing to not feel them,

right? And just kind of stuff them down

and start looking at screens or whatever it is.

And I mean, there's some there's different schools of thought on

how to regulate and so and I'm not an expert in that, but I

just feel like when my son is begging me for the for the, you

know, the iPhone to look watch when he's really upset, it pains

me to do that because I just feel like that's not the way to

handle it. The best way up.

Next, we'll discuss. Discover what our favorite ice

cream tells us about how we view the world in why we make the

day-to-day choices that we do. When we return to the light

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Come. This is the light inside.

I'm Jeffrey biesecker. There are conflicts everywhere

in the world every day. Between people, many of us, find

it difficult to understand other people's points of view.

Whether it is our loved ones or world leaders.

Therefore we attribute our differences to quirks in our

personalities, in the world, we live in.

There's always going to be a difference between what you see

and how others. See things.

For example, two people can look at The same painting and have

two very different interpretations of its meaning.

This is because everyone has their own unique experiences and

perspectives or individual experiences and perspectives

shape. How we interpret the world

around us. As a result, it's only natural

that people will have different interpretations of the same

thing. We all have our preferences,

everything from the clothes, we wear to the car.

We drive, and even our favorite flavor of ice cream in typical

of us, we each feel our preference to be Best option,

not only for ourselves, but for others as well.

In reality, our core belief shape, the way we view the world

in many ways. This week, we talked with

neuroscientist Mark Williams about how our beliefs shape our

reality and how we can use this knowledge to live a more

fulfilling and harmonious life Mark lean.

And today as children were all rather malleable and how we view

the world or ideas and opinions aren't already formed.

I'd like to look at how our Dances shape, the way we see

ourselves in others and perhaps more specifically, why we often

formed blind spots in how we perceive ourselves, if purposely

set aside preforming our core line of questioning with the

intent of returning to that beginners mindset.

But to begin Mark, where we frame, our perspectives is

shaped by several key factors. Would you highlight these

factors for us? Yes, our biggest problem with us

as humans, or any animal real. Is that the world's really

complicated? And we are only able to perceive

very, very small amount of what's actually out there at any

one time. So our working memory which is

what we call it in neuroscience and spec from a psychological

point of view we call it. Their Consciousness is really

limited and you're only able to have 57 items in your working

memory at any one time or your Consciousness than any one time.

It's really, really thin. So we used to have phone numbers

before we had mobile phones, used to be limited to six

numbers because we could only hold six numbers in our working

memory. And then we had to dial them

before we added these fancy phones would actually hold all

that. So they're always limited to six

numbers for that reason. So that's why we have to do lots

of stuff, or have lots of stuff in our brain, which is telling

us what's actually going on. When we're not actually able to

process it. Because our working memory, our

Consciousness is so limited and so therefore, most of what

actually we think is going on on what we think.

He's been processed is actually all automatic or oats

unconscious and it's a biased because it's just a

generalization what we've learned and because our genetic

material that we receive from our mothers and our fathers when

we born is so limited, vast majority over but basically all

of our our knowledge is learned. So it's all learned very early

on and it's all weren't on everything that we experience in

those first few years, which then tells us what The world's

like and what all the generalizations are like.

And so those things have coarser things like our emotions and how

we were going to respond to stimuli that are out there in

the world. Also, our biases towards other

people or other things. So they are automatic that

generalizations or the categorization to be have about

things that are out there in the world.

Everything from really simple things like you know, when

something's in the shade then it's actually much brighter than

it actually is which makes us See colors differently when

they're in the shade compared to when they're in life.

All the way to you know what somebody of a particular race,

might normally what we think is normal normally how they may

normally behaved. So all of those things are

things that we learn and therefore generalize and

therefore constantly are perceiving the world in that way

because of this fact that our Consciousness is so limited and

we're only able to really concentrate on one thing at a

time and I gave you a lot of information in my what That's

great. Know, sometimes being that child

is being open to the wisdom or mind.

That's guiding us. So, in that respect, you do in

our day-to-day lives, were often bombarded with data information,

stimuli stimulus, you know, multiple sources of potential

distraction even at times from that biological standpoint, what

might serve as that core basis or reason why we are limited to

Only those five factors of those five points of interest.

Yes. Okay.

Because we are limited to only five to seven slots or five to

seven items that we can actually hold in our mind.

We, we can't multitask. So, every time we do get

distracted, we actually fell attention shifts.

Our Consciousness to that new thing that we've just been

distracted by, and we actually lose the last 90 seconds of

whatever we're doing. So if you actually want to think

about something and hold that information, You've got to hold

it for at least 90 seconds, so that it can be transferred to a

temporary store. So then it can be transferred to

your long-term memory later on. And so, when we do get this,

each time we get distracted by something in our environment.

Everything gets wiped from our Consciousness even though we

don't realize it because their brains are really good at

tricking us into thinking that our perception is this constant

real? That's actually happening when

it's not actually. It's this constant jumping from

one thing to another and so every time we distracted we go

to something else. We lose the 90 seconds of what

we're doing and the new thing then takes over.

But again because it's so limited in the inputs are

limited, most of what it is. That's actually occurring.

Most of what we're receiving is, actually from our long-term

memories from our clan Consciousness.

So vast majority 70 to 80% of what we perceive and what we

think we're understanding about the world out there is actually

just generated from our long-term memory from our

unconscious areas of our brain. And so, this is why Why they're

often is misunderstandings and there are a lot of

misunderstandings that it get because we're relying on our own

past and our own knowledge in their long-term memory and not

on what we're actually really deceiving in the world from the

technical perspective from my awareness.

I know that that memory is divided or compartmentalized in

some regards to two different categories or types.

I'll put it that way, from my perspective, the explicit memory

in the implicit memory, could you Differentiate the two of

those for us and maybe give us a brief explanation of how each of

those roles play out. So yes.

So that explicit is stuff that we're actually we can bring to

mind. So if I ask you a question like

could, you know, 10 different flavored ice creams that you

experienced in the past and you be able to reel off in a

chocolate and strawberry and vanilla, and whatever it happens

to be a dancer explicit memory. So those are things that you can

bring to mind if you actually explicitly can explain to me.

But then if I turn, Turn around saying, well what's your

favorite ice cream? Then that's really an implicit

memory because it's based on your emotions which you don't

really have explicitly contact. All of you don't have access to

that explicit that. So you might, I would probably

start thinking about ice creams, and I'll probably be like, well,

I really like vanilla, but then I also like chocolate sometimes

and then when I think of chocolate, I get certain

emotional responses to it, but then I think we'll hang on.

I also like cookies and cream because my kids love cookies.

Crying. So I have an emotional response

to that. And so that though all those,

those emotional responses, we don't really know what we don't

explicitly. Remember why we have all those

emotional responses that are implicit, then the dead things

that we're not aware of but they make they have an impact on our

decisions. On what decisions were actually

making. So that's the way I like to talk

to people about the difference between an implicit and

explicit. No be explicit of stuff that we

can easily describe and pulling two are working.

Memory foam are long-term and whereas implicit staffers stuff

that actually impacts on the way we make decisions and how we

perceive the world, but we can't really describe it in any way.

I can't really describe our. I like chocolate ice cream for

example, but I do like chocolate ice cream.

It's interesting to me to see that correlation between emotion

and how, our emotions by most regards are believed to last

between a few milliseconds in 90 seconds Within In our original

emotional engagement cycle, I'll frame it that way.

It stands to reason to me, now, to hear how that connection ties

into those memories, a lot of ways.

And it also illustrates to me that connection with that cycle

of rumination, that we often from a certain perspective label

overthinking. Yeah.

Well, we have long-term memories and objective.

And because our perception is an objective white.

Nothing that we perceive is actually based on what's that?

Actually out there in the world, everything that we perceive is

based on our long-term memory and what is actually good for

us. So when I'm talking to you, my

voice box causes a wave in here, which travels through the air,

and if we're in the same room at the microphones and everything,

complicate things, but if you're in the same room that why you

were there, of course, would then move your eardrum, which

would move little bones in your inside your ear, which would

move another little eardrum, which may be popular, which it

Little hairstyle with you push up against him Panic membrane,

which would cause activity, which would go into your brain,

and then your brain creates an illusion that you've heard a

noise. But you didn't actually hear a

noise because all my voice box, he was caused a wave in the air,

because there's no noise out there in the world and all that

perception is like that. There's no color in the world or

you're receiving these different wavelengths of light that are

reflecting off different services but there's no colors

out there. So all of the perceptions that

we have are all created by our Memory in our brains.

And so they're not actually based vertically on what's

actually out there in the world. But rather, what we think is out

there, what our brains think are out there based on our long-term

memory. And we now know that about 90%

of our perception that we actually see is just based on

their long-term memory. Not, it's not even what we can

say about that. It's not actually the input from

our bear but rather what we remember should be actually out

there and so therefore we create that.

And then of course we layer on top of that, a huge amount of

Formation based on all of our experiences, we did our study

many years ago because this whole area of research.

It's always looked at facial expressions and argued that we

have these 6 different, facial expressions, which are the six

basic emotions that we all perceive.

And we all perceive those facial expressions, exactly the same

and it's automatic. And I did a lot of research in

that area showing that we perceive them without actually

knowing that we actually see them and it's all done by of

subcortical route. What am I getting at?

He will that was could be completely true.

Because when I saw certain politicians smiling, I actually

had an automatic reaction of over very negative response.

Rather than a positive response, you know, because I thought that

way that was smoking and no up to no good.

So we actually studied that and we talked a whole bunch of

different actors and we told the participants who are in the

study that this group of people were really nasty people and

really evil and had a little bit.

It's about their lives and how evil my way and all these guys

are really nice people and blah blah blah.

And then we actually scan them and scan these people while they

were looking at different photos.

Have been different people either, really nasty, people are

really good people. Now, when they were looking at

the good people and they smiled, they got the normal brain

responses over was smiling and when they were angry, they got

the normal brain responses though, they were angered, but

when they look into the people who they knew really nasty

people and done awful things in their past, When they were angry

look like, they were angry, their brain responded.

But when they smiled, it looked their brain responded as though

they were angry. And their physiological response

was as though, angry. So there are actually perceiving

and their brain was perceiving. These individuals has been angry

even though they were smiling which we write against all the

previous research that we'd actually done in that area and

actually showed that knowing who will person is and knowing stuff

about them changes what you know about them of course in Ten

memories, but also changes the way you perceive them.

Now, the really interesting thing that came out of the hole

that was it. Then when we asked participants,

how did you remember who was in which group?

I said I was really easy because you put all the really

attractive people in the nice group and you put all the really

ugly people in the really mean group in there really nasty

group, but we actually randomize the pictures between each

participant. So it's participant got

different people in age group. So there was no systemic reason

to think that. The nasty people work

unattractive, but every participant perceived the nasty

people has been unattractive. So you even see people and

there's been lots of research since then showing that.

So if you don't like someone, you actually see them as less

attractive than if you actually like someone and you'll actually

hear what they say differently, which is why we have so many

issues in society now. Because if you don't like a

particular person or a particular politician, you'll

hear what they say differently to someone who actually, Does

like that particular personal that particular politician,

which is why it's so important you'd actually make connections

with people before you actually try and convince them, whatever

it is, you want to convince them all.

So we don't learn, you can learn from someone that you're not

actually connected with people, which is why I work a lot with

teachers and in schools because in schools and with teachers,

but I think we now have forgotten the fact that teachers

actually need to connect with the students first before they

can actually teach because we now know that students don't

actually listen to it teacher unless they first connect with

them first, which is why teachers are you like you learn

from and you're like I really like that subject and teacher

that you don't like you think you're not very good at that

subject because you don't learn from them because you're not

actually connected. So that it's really important to

realize that our whole perception of the world is just

based on our own experiences. Not based on what's actually out

there and our experiences change.

What? We know we even do now.

That you perceive different colors even though you had your

receiving exactly the same spatial frequency of light, use

perceive the colors differently, depending on what language you

speak because some language have more colors.

Not more descriptive words for the colors than other languages.

So you perceive colors differently in the world,

depending on what language you're learning here.

And in that regard, I'm thinking here back a little bit too early

in our conversation so far, we're processing.

These, are we not from both implicit and explicit?

It memories at the same time. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So both of those are impacting

that. But yeah, the explicit stops of

stuff that we think we have control over.

But it's been impacted by the always implicit stuff, right?

These subjects that we looked at and when we taught them that

these people were good and these people were evil, they thought

they were just memorizing, that they'll good and evil, but they

are also have an emotional responses because we made them

really evil road with, these were pedophiles, and then done

really horrendous things. And so they'll have an emotional

response. Responses to these really evil

people and that emotional responses and all those extra

implicit stuff that they didn't realize they were attached into

these people. Then later impacted on the way,

they actually perceive them and whether they thought they were

attractive and how they perceive their facial expressions.

When they were smiling until If seeing is believing, why is it

we tend to rely heavily on the first piece of information?

We receive when exerting judgments or making decisions

the anchoring bias is a cognitive bias.

The causes us to rely too heavily on the first piece of

information were often given about a person idea or topic up.

Next, we'll discover how this common thinking, error

influences us throughout life and why we do it.

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Get neuro.com today. We've all heard the saying

seeing is believing yet the way things are presented to us.

Again, affects not only what we see but how we feel about this

experience. Whenever we're presented with

information where influenced by the way it's presented a

psychological phenomena known as the framing effect when we're

presented with options. Why does it affect our decisions

the framing effect is due to the way our brains process

information faces are among the most informative.

Stimuli we perceive even a split second, glimpse of a person's

face tells us their identity sex mood age race and even direction

of Ian yet much of what makes us who we are that unique person

inside is missing from these brief glimpses, as we encounter

each other as a result, we often fill in this missing data or

information, usually, in accurately, and with ill effect,

face processing is acknowledged in the artificial Vision

Community, where facial recognition, algorithms are

contestable. This means that when we're

literally faced with two choices, we may be more likely

to choose the one that is Here's more beneficial.

Regardless of the actual outcomes of this Choice

typically options are framed so that the gain or loss associated

with them is highlighted. We are susceptible to this sort

of framing because in accordance with the prospect theory we tend

to avoid certain losses. The loss is perceived as more

significant and therefore more worthy of avoiding than an equal

gain. The way something is framed, can

influence our certainty that it will bring either gain or loss.

This is why we find it attractive when the positive

features of an option are highlighted, instead of the

negative ones, Mark and mini regards, those perspectives are

two separate ideas that are automatically somewhat

conflicting at times. You know, that Devil's Advocate,

we often talk about or that devil on our shoulder, which

shoulder or which wolf, you know, that idea of two wolves,

which wolf are we listening to comes to me?

Yeah, we tried to get will weigh 12, the we fighting Yeah, and it

all depends on how you're actually feeling if you are

stressed, if you're tired, if you've had a bad day the night

before you, you're going to react in different ways than

issue actually in a good mood and you're happy.

And so it's also going to impact on the way you perceive the

world depending on how you actually feeling and what has

happened to you in the last 24 hours, 48 hours, or whatever it

happens to be. So all those things are also

going to impact on the perceptions that you have and

the the way you actually see the world, and we all know me, I'm

sure everybody listens had that experience, where, you know, you

have a bad sleep that night and nothing works during the duck,

right? And of course, everything's

working the same as it did the day before.

It's just, you know, you had it bad sleep the night before you

had a fight with your partner or, you know, you had the kids

were playing up or whatever, which put you in a bad mood

which meant then you, perceived everything is going bad even

though it would have been exactly the same as it was the

day. So from that perspective, you

mentioned previously how that kind of shapes and informs our

ability to open and Trust others, especially your how we

form our ability to open and Trust ourselves.

Could you share a little bit more in that regard?

Why, and how we start to form some of those values and

opinions? Yes, there's lots of aspects to

we can talk about it. So one of them is so we have a

face template the way we Range of actually evolved so that we

can actually connect with people.

So we are the social. We're now, I my my book that's

about to come out. It's called the connected

species because we are the connected species and we have a

large Brain because we are connected and we are so

connected and we're the only species in the world that

actually connects across groups. So, you know, you've got bees.

For example, have an amazing big hives and they have amazing,

they are everybody's doing different jobs and they all work

together. On everything to keep the hive

together, but one Hive, never interacts with another high.

One, I won't go over some really cool flowers over there.

You guys should go and and Source some pollen from there,

or they won't say, hey you guys are running out of honey.

We'll give you some honey and then you can give us something

back or whatever we do. We're the only species that

actually does that, and does it across groups?

But because of that, we've evolved this amazing system to

actually communicate with each other.

And one of the ways we communicate with each other, and

one of the important Aspects of being in large group since he's

recognizing who individuals, are we do that by the face?

And we've got this amazing mechanism in our base template.

That recognizes thousands and thousands of individuals and we

recognize them across time. So, you know, I can recognize

people that I met during childhood even though they've

changed their hair and Perry's for one out like myself and all

those things. But you can still recognize

those individuals because of his face template, and we can also

recognize who's in the same. Family by this face template.

And the way the template works is, it's an average of all the

faces you've seen, which means that it's actually biased

towards people who you see a lot.

And people, you don't see a lot of further away from it, which

is why we are able to recognize most people are able to

recognize people of their own race better than they are,

people of other races. And we're actually able to

recognize and remember people of their own based better than we

are of other people, but that's only if The most majority of

people that you see, are people of your own race.

So that also means because this face template is actually a

warning system, as well of people who aren't within your

group because people within your group, you see a lot of anyone

who deviates a long way from that face template.

You will have a negative reaction towards and so your

fight or flight response will be activated.

So you'll get quick, your heart rate will go up, blood will be

pumped to your muscles, your eyes will dilate and so on.

So that you're in a I do fly response to anyone who's outside

of that template. So if you got a really wide

template then you actually won't have that response.

If you've got a really narrow template, then you're more

likely, they have that response, which is why we find that the

most racist countries in the world are ones that are very

homogeneous. So, according to the UN the most

racist country in the world is actually Japan because most

people in Japan a Japanese and everything.

They see on the media is Japanese faces.

So their templates really narrow so they have this fight or My

response to everybody who's not Japanese basically whereas more

homogeneous societies, we know don't have that same response.

So yeah, we have these implicit, I mean, that's completely

implicit, none of us realize that that's actually going on

and that we can actually change that based on just who we

actually see on a regular basis. But again, it's that that's one

of those implicit things that just happens to us without

actually, knowing about it and we do it automatically.

And then, of course, we have the stereotypes that we learn, which

is more the explicit stuff. We actually learned that you

know it was yeah Mi are braver than I thought and I bet I'm not

going to come up with someone and they're all pretty.

But yeah we know all these stereotypes.

These are stereotypes that we learnt.

They're actually not real. But we've learned those and

we've layered those also on to our perception of people and how

will interact with people when we actually meet them.

So those are, those are two examples of your implicit

persons, you're explicitly based It on our Evolution.

That's an interesting point for me to make curry latian with a

recent research study that I read.

I can't remember the name of the neuroscientist, but on cortical

columns, I'll spit it out today. We're essentially our brain is

just taking a mental snapshot Time After Time After Time of

our environment of our interactions and recording that

in our cerebrum. Yeah.

So we do have these oscillations.

We know that we've got an oscillation of our attention.

So we don't see the world as this continual movie that we

think we see that's their brain. Again, cowlick, creating this

illusion that we're seeing the world as a constant movie, It's

Going On. We're actually seeing things in

these snapshots in these oscillations that are constantly

on and off on and off on and off on and off.

And a good example of that, of course, is your eyes because

your eyes are moving around all the time.

And if you did see things continuously, then each time

your eyes move, everything would blur, right?

Because your eyes are moving. So yeah, the world traveler.

And it doesn't, it shuts down and then starts again, and then

shuts down and start again and shuts down and start again.

So there's lots and lots of periods where were actually not

perceiving anything at all. But our brain is creating this

illusion that we have this constant perception of the

world, but we don't. And most of what we perceive is

actually based on a long-term memory based on all these

Heuristics and learnings that we've cared and and automatic

stuff that's going on based on our learning me that makes an

interesting point to kind of observe how that forms the

importance of maintaining eye contact in our connection and

conversation. How that keeps us in the present

moment with that interaction versus slipping back into that

past. Yeah, there's nothing more

annoying. I mean, that's one of the

reasons why it's difficult to communicate well on On because

usually, we'll do it with a few people in a meeting and you'll

have four or five people or more all looking, it's not actually

the proper eye gaze. There's when you normally in a

group of say, four or five people, everyone will look at

the speaker and the speaker will be looking.

Now, everybody else, which is a normal way to do it, but when

you're online, everybody's looking at everybody which is

really impossible to do and our brains get really confused by

that because it doesn't make any sense.

Sense, and we get really frustrated by or the person will

have the camera somewhere else to where their screen is.

And so, they'll be looking away from the camera.

And so also to our brain, our brain automatically says, if the

person is not looking at me and I'm talking, then they're not

listening to me, because that's how we know.

And we know that again, implicitly because I don't know

if you've ever experienced it, but leaving babies, very young

kids, if you're not actually listening to know if you're not

looking at Grab your face and move your face.

And I yeah, look at that because I want to get your attention.

I mean babies know that if you're looking at them then

you're attending to them. And you're actually paying

attention to what they're saying.

If you're not looking at them, then you're not paying attention

and you're not listening, we do that even Place, Italy,

automatically. And so when we're online and

we're doing these things, we get really frustrated and we don't

realize we're getting frustrated but we do get rarest rated by

the fact that it's not what it should be a hit.

Yeah, it's a really interesting point to note, as I observe my

own granddaughter. She has that tendency, she's

very engaged and very inquisitive, intial, and grab

your face and just study and you could tell that she's making

that connection. Hmm, such an important

connection to my touching it going, come in action, and it's

really bizarre, because we now have a new disorder out there in

the world. Amongst young kids.

Toddlers called the still face effect where they hid their

faces are still. They don't show.

Facial expressions and they don't look at people and we

think that's because the carers are using mobile phones and are

on screams all the time. So they're not actually teaching

the kids, implicitly how to actually communicate in that

way. So they don't actually learn how

to do it. So just as an aside is quite a

few studies now coming out showing the kids now.

Yeah, don't use facial expressions in the right way and

don't use eye gaze in the right way because they haven't learned

it as a toddler because their carers aren't showing them how

to do it because Was there on the, on the devices or time?

This is scary. My family back to this weak

interaction. With a tween nephew of mine.

You know, is got the cellphone and we're all trying to engage

him. It's put the phone down.

We'd like to actually connect with you.

We're imprinting and ingraining those patterns.

So, that's interesting to Mark and look out.

Yeah, it is, it's a little scary aspect of the whole smartphone

thing because it smartphones are amazing.

I mean, it's amazing to have this you know computer.

In a pocket that we would have never dreamt of 20, 25 years

ago, but unfortunately, yeah, we're using it in a way, which

is actually detrimental to what we actually need, which is we

need to be able to communicate with each other.

I mean, if you look at all 21st century skills, the most

important ones are emotional intelligence, communication

ability, empathy ability to lead, others ability to

communicate the ability to innovate and collaborate and to

learn that by actually looking at someone and spending time

with people, I actually talking to people and interacting with

people not on devices and sadly. I think a lot of kids, these

days they are on the devices too much and not learning.

Those really important skills that they're going to need.

When they see get out there in the workforce jumping back,

perhaps a little bit Mark. Let's look at our environments

in the influence that that has on our learning.

What role can our social environments play in that regard

informing how we frame these perspectives?

Yeah. It's It's 100%, it's everything

really? We learn from other people.

I mean again, that's another amazing thing about us as humans

is, so most animals will demonstrate to the younger ones,

within the group, how to do things.

So they'll go out hunting and they'll follow them and they'll

see what they're actually doing. And so, they'll be mimicked what

they're doing because of the mirror neuron system.

We do that as well, but we also think about it and we actually

go hang on. We can actually tell this person

how to do this. We can actually add extra

information. Formation to the learning.

And we can do that through verbal communication and true

demonstrating and so on. And so, that's really crucial.

And humans can learn really quickly, but because of that,

we've also got a, what, would you call it a lock on it?

So you can only learn from someone that you think is part

of your in group, or common term for it is a try, but it's not

really a tribe. It's a two part of your in-group

and so people who are part of your in group you'll learn I'm

really easily really really easily but someone who's not

part of your in group, you won't actually learn from and you

actually won't actually listened to in the same way you actually

hear what they say differently. So if we going to learn for

people we actually need to learn for people who are a part of our

in group and you've got to actually connect with the person

first, which is, you know, I mean, it's easy to connect with

someone, if you actually take the time to do that, but then

everything, that we do in the future is actually based on what

we learn, right? Because we don't have Have free

will can't can't really occur because of the fact that none of

our decisions are made in isolation.

So all of our decisions are made based on a prior experience, its

you never randomly make a decision.

You always make a decision based on your past experiences.

And so every decision we make is based on what we've already

learned and so it's so crucial that we learn the right things

and not the wrong things, which, which is why we need to surround

ourselves and we why we need our Greg to be positive and have

positive people within that because then we're going to

learn the right things and therefore make the right

decisions in the future, which is wonderful because it means

that we can actually influence people, right?

If we actually didn't, if we met random decisions, then we

couldn't actually influence people.

But because of the fact that we are social animals, we do

influence each other because of the fact that we always make

decisions based on our prior experiences, in that regard, I

feel like A lot of times, we might learn a pattern of limited

perspective on how we actually learn itself, aren't there many

different categorizations of types of learning.

So in the brine, what we do, how we learn, he's really old the

sign, the different categorizations come from more.

It's more of a pedagogical approach to learning.

So, yeah, how our schools and How to how we compartmentalize

it but when you actually look at the brain are so the brain does

it the same every time and that's through experience,

right? That's just through actually

having a connection with someone and therefore learning it, and

hypothesis testing. So we actually learn constantly

through others testing because we as humans are extremely

curious animals. I mean, this whole is a lot of

nonsense out there about the fact that we lose curiosity as

we get older and all those sorts of things, which is complete

nonsense. Because we'd actually be Dead.

If we did, we are really curious animals which is why All These

reality TV shows are so popular, right?

Because people are just so curious about what's happening

in someone else's bedroom or in someone else's house or

whatever. That's why we like watching

those things because they keep changing and we're curious about

what's going on over there. So from a learning point of

view, what we do is we constantly making hypotheses

about what's actually going on there.

We're all really just scientist. So when a baby learns safe,

Example, when baby, first sees a dog and the babies carer will

turn around and go. Oh, that thing there.

They'll look at it, which the baby will automatically know

that they're talking about that thing because they're looking at

that thing. I'll say, dog, the baby's brain

will automatically go. Okay?

That's the item dog. And that's its name, or there's

a whole category of those things out there that are called dogs

and I'm going to see some more in the future.

And then when the carrier, then turns around and sees another

dog and says Ah dog Ugh. The baby's brain automatically,

then goes. Oh, it can't be an item.

That can't be have been that one's name because it's that

one's name as well. So therefore, there must be a

whole category of these things. And therefore, I'm going to see

lots more of these out there in the world which are all dogs.

Now that's to trial learning which is astounding that anybody

able to do that. So a computer with there's lots

of talk about artificial intelligence moment which is

actually just learning algorithms, which we've had for

a long time and those In algorithms will take thousands

of Trials to to exactly the same thing.

Our brains can do it in two trials, they're toddlers.

Brain can do it in two trials. Yeah, learning algorithms such

as chat, Jeopardy, or whatever. Will take thousands of Trials to

do exactly. The same thing which is

astounding, right there were actually able to do that and we

do that through social learn and all of the learning we do is

really true. Social learning is there's a

desire to learn something and then we go and learn it and we

Which is why YouTube videos and all these are so popular, right.

Because you actually get on YouTube and you see someone

teaching you how to do something, and that's how we

learn really well, these through this social interaction and then

making the hypotheses and then ruling out the wrong hypotheses

through trial and error, you'll have to me.

Brings to mind what I've learned through my sociology and group

dynamic study that raw of parochial empathy, or our

ability, to feel that empathy and compassion for in group

members, Well, we also are somewhat rejecting.

As you mentioned, those out group dynamics.

Yeah, the Germans, the Germans are always a great group that

talk about because the Germans actually have a 94, they have

times schadenfreude means. Yeah, you actually liked

somebody from your acrobatic sleeping her, right?

And he said you actually enjoyed being somebody from.

Yeah, but grouping and the, yeah, there's been lots of

studies. Now on the brain actually

showing that if What is part of your out-group?

You actually get pleasure from seeing them whereas yeah this is

even very empathetic people very emotionally aware people will

even like saying somebody from our group getting hurt and they

don't like seeing somebody from there.

I get group getting her but it's an automatic reaction to that if

you know what I mean. I feel guilty for putting, but

they still do it. We've explored that a good deal

at a past episode looking at Very popular dynamic in your

area down under known as tall. Poppy syndrome, no idea where

the opposite of that is rather than showing that empathy.

We do the complete opposite and start to cut down and find fault

in others. Garrett, empezar thing that

happens. He I loved working in the US

because you don't have the tall poppy syndrome you have quite

the opposite where you know it's quite okay to be very

successful. Whereas here in Australia we do

have the tall Poppy Syndrome which we think is actually come

because the people who moved here originally were convicts,

and of course convicts weren't supposed to be successful and so

we have. Yeah, we have a very great

dislike towards anybody who talks about the fact that

unwell, which it doesn't happen over, you know, in other

countries, anywhere near as much as it does here, which is very

bizarre. Do you feel from a certain

perspective in? This is kind of picking apart

things at the scene. Within the Americanized culture,

that might become a little more covert or a little bit more

guarded and how we present it. Possibly, I think there's also

there's a big difference between Australia and the US, I found

what I found when I because I've lived in both countries in the

US which I really like about the u.s. is, it's okay to fail.

So here in Australia, if you have a business spring example

and you go bankrupt, then you won't get another loan.

I never liked your new engine screwed, right?

That's just the end of it. Whereas in the u.s. going

bankrupt, it's almost a rite of passage for a lot of

entrepreneur nerds. And they'll do it several times

and be quite successful eventually because they'll do

it. Never go on then not and I

really like that about the us because making mistakes like

that I think is really important and you're not going to be

really Innovative and creative unless you're willing to make

mistakes whereas hearing Australia, there's much more of

an emphasis on getting it right? The first time which I find it

yet. Not that willingness that to

make mistakes, which I think are really important or is that when

we need to teach people to make more mistakes, that's why we

really learn. And the way we become inhibiting

cray Google and things like that and yeah it happened in the u.s.

because of the fact that they're willing to do things outside the

normal and they're willing to give things to go and all those

things which yeah unfortunately here doesn't happen as much.

Might that be interrelated with what you often term as our

neuroma. Myths and snart's.

Let's maybe segue toward that in our conversation.

If you mention how it's important to frame, how we

execute our meaning-making perspective context, what are

some of these more popular neuro myths that can misguide or

misdirect our brain. Yes, a space of pure.

And what one of them, of course, is a multitasking one, which

drives me crazy that we can multitask.

And I multitask and sell working memories on the capable of only

has supplied to Seven slots. And so we're only able to

concentrate on one thing at a time.

And so, therefore, we have a whole bunch of stuff that's

going on automatically. So hopefully, because I'm

talking you'll be listening to me, and you won't be able to do

anything else. And if you tried to say, you

know, do a mathematical calculation while I was talking,

you wouldn't be able to hear me and we know that anybody who has

kids knows that, you know, if they're reading a book so you

can you start Talking to me. They don't you write, they don't

actually have any comprehension of what you're doing.

So yeah, that's one that really frustrates me because a lot of

people I work with a lot with students, just get in and to

realize that if they want to do less time, I spend less time

doing homework and get the same marks.

It's really easy to do that. They've just got to concentrate

just on the homework and get rid of everything else and then they

can just concentrate on the homework, but I save a lot of

time and I'll actually get that done and they'll get better

marks because that's tough. Get Consolidated in that Brian's

a lot better. So they'll be able to recall it

better when they're actually doing their exams and then they

can go and do everything else they want to do such as you know

look at YouTube or hanging out with your friends or go for a

surf or whatever. But they've got to just you

know, get rid of all the distractions and just focus on

one thing. So that's that's one of the

newer armies that I frustrates me in a lot.

And other one is that male and female brains are different.

I don't want frustrates the bejeebies out of me all the meta

analysis. It's out.

There is shown that male and female brains are identical.

There is no difference between the two, same amount of variance

and saying, yeah, exactly the same.

There is no difference between male and female brains.

I think it started with the whole Men Are from Mars and

women are from Venus, but I mean, that was somebody's open

to make a lot of money. Yeah, social condition that

we're different. Our behaviors are different, but

our behaviors are different because of the way we were

brought up so because before a woman has a baby Is I know what

six the babies, even the doctors treat the woman differently, if

they having a male baby versus a female baby and you're treated

differently from that stage onwards.

And as we talked about before, all of your behaviors and all of

your long-term memory is based on your experiences, and if your

experiences are different and you're treating one group one

way, and another group another way, then they're going to them

behave differently because of that.

And that's why males and females behave differently, not because

of any difference in their actual brains because all The

scans show that they're actually identical and with there's no

difference between males and females, as far as the brain is

concerned and therefore, if her treated the same, but actually

developed the same and modak the same later on in life.

So yeah, that's another one, that sort of frustrates me a

bit. I often mention in reinforce

that belief think. Before you act, you know, in

many regards were acting from that pattern condition or habit

of thought normal, go to kind of automatic Why is this such an

empowering statement as we consider how we frame our

perspectives, think before you act, let's reinforce that.

Yeah, no, that's a good one. So because of the fact that how

we've evolved their brains have evolved to the last 100 million

years environment, which was very potentially dangerous and

potentially dangerous, most of the time.

And so we have a brain that constantly looking out for

danger and constantly. We a fear of what's actually

going to happen. So it's constantly monitor in

the world for any danger out there in the world.

And so, therefore, all of our automatic responses are geared

towards safety gear towards what's safe and tearful.

And so you need to think first before you act, because a lot of

the time, your brain will be telling you that there could be

something potentially dangerous there.

And if you don't think, hang on is a dangerous Oreo.

Am I okay? Then it will.

Send you in the wrong direction and I'm in our emotions aren't.

There is something that we should respond to.

It immediately emotions are warning that there's potential

of something that we need to be aware of.

And so, we need to stop and actually, think about what is

our brain trying to tell us? Why is it telling us a

particular thing? I mean, a perfect example is

face perception, which we talked about before.

So, when you see a face which is outside your template, your A

body your brain and therefore your body will respond as though

that there's something dangerous there and you'll automatically

get the faster heart rate. You'll automatically get the

fight or flight response going on.

Now, of course, if you acted immediately on that then you

know you're going to do something which is inappropriate

in this day and age where we're all much safer than we were

before and similarly if someone came towards you and look like

someone that you don't like again you'll get that fight or

flight response. Off and I fight or flight

response is telling you this person looks like someone that

you don't like but it's possibly not that person.

And so you've got to First respond to you first.

Got to go, hang on. Why am I having this response?

And then say okay it's only because of this you know because

he looks like someone who did me wrong 20 years ago or they've

got, you know, it tattoos and I've learned that tattoos are

our own people who are more dangerous or whatever it happens

to be. So yeah that's why we need to

think before we act because our brains are constantly trying to

warn us that there could be danger because that's the

environment people in my work. I've often noticed how that role

of the availability heuristic interacts in particular, you

know it creates adverse in healthy influences.

A lot of times. What role does that

availability? Play either information or in

the data, we have present Informing our perspective.

Yeah, it's important always I think one of the biggest

problems with Society at the moment is as we're all too busy,

is it? So we're constantly busy and so

therefore, we're not giving ourselves and everyone else time

and it's ironic because we are busier now than we've ever been

in the past year, we're less productive than we've ever been.

So we will most productive actually in that in the 70s and

80s and going to the 90s and then productivities dropped off

in the last 20 years or so. Usually, in all organizations,

which is crazy yet, we're all feeling busier than we ever have

been. I think a lot of that has to do

with this. This problem that we're not

giving our brains time to do what they actually need to do.

So what we need to do is at least slow down.

I always when I talk to especially leaders about

communication and a lot of companies want me to come and

talk about communication. And the first thing I say, is

you have When you actually ask a question, you don't have to stop

and listen to the answer. And if you're then asking

another question as soon as the person finishes answering your

question, then you didn't listen to the answer because what you

were doing you as you were thinking about the next

question, right? You need a gap in between and

Society doesn't like those gaps doesn't like to give people the

opportunity to think anymore and I think that's a real problem

with Society. At the moment, is we need to

give people a Active giving moments of Silence in between

discussion. So when we, we need to give

people that Gap but which shows respect.

So, when you're talking to someone, when they speak to you,

then you should stop. If, you know, 30 seconds, it

feels like a lifetime when you first start doing it, but give

30 seconds because that actually tells the person this person

thinking about what I just said which shows them respect and

they actually like that but it also gives you an opportunity to

think About what they've just said and then respond to what

they've actually said rather than coming up because most of

us spend, most of the time, somebody's talking to you,

thinking about how you're going to respond to them rather than

thinking about what they're actually trying to tell you.

And so, we miss out on actually understanding what each of us is

trying to say to each other. Because we're constantly

thinking about how we're going to respond to them in a way that

we've already decided is what they're going to want to hear.

Does that make sense? I find myself and I try to

practice that pause. Now doing that very regularly

especially during our interviews on the podcast in that regard.

As I pause and ponder, it brings to mind me.

The idea of selective reinforcement, an idea which as

we were speaking. I projected forward into which

barely selective reinforcement. Is finding those things that you

already want to create that value from in some regard.

Yes, sir. It's I think it's different when

you're on Sia podcast and you've already decided what you want to

cover in the podcast. For example, I think it podcast

Isn't that natural sort of I'm not many whipping whipping a

natural. It's it's not unless frame it

that are framing context. Matters.

Today it's 82. Yes.

I typically very good way this week.

Yeah. Okay so it's an atypical way of

actually communicating because we're really trying to

communicate to inform the listeners rather than actually

to inform each other and so we're actually trying to do that

and so we probably know What we're both going to say before

we sign it. Anyway, most of the time and I

think when you know you're asking questions, you would have

a good idea about how I'm going to frame it and so therefore,

you know, so therefore you don't need those gaps as much in that

sort of environment. As you do when, you know, your

say a business leader and you've got one of your employees in.

You're talking to them about why they're not being very

productive at the moment and how their mental health is going.

And you know what? Wow Your relationships with

other people in the workforce is going and so on or if you're

talking to your son or daughter about how school is and why

they're not getting along with a particular person or whatever.

So I think the normal dose important discussions that we

have at home. And those important discussions

that we have at work require us to slow down when they have

those gaps where as I think there's other situations such as

a podcast where you probably don't need those gaps in

between. So yeah, there is a little bit

of a They're in in the situation and you have your typical and

you're a typical conversation today.

And with those with most of our conversations, I think we need

those gaps. We need more of those caps, but

there are situations, where, of course, you want to be of a flow

going on. And so, therefore you've known

me, you're not going to have those gaps, Sofia.

You asked so sure. Receive.

There's that pause in that regard.

Let's look at that notion or this kind of burgeoning idea of

active listening and holding space for others where we create

that Gap. And we're not constantly trying

to jump forward, what are some tips or insights?

We might share about first creating that space and then

being at our Optimum, then to more actively in, In

conscientiously responding. Yeah, it's a beautiful question.

The first thing I think we need to do is before you respond.

I think you knew wanna first think what does that person?

Actually you want to hear, right?

Rather than what do I want to tell them?

It's actually, what are they want to hear?

Because people talk to us because they want answers,

right? They want it.

They want to hear something in particular and often we're

talking to them because we want to use something in particular.

And so you need to sort of stop and say, hang on, what are they

want to hear rather than what am I trying to tell them?

Because often we go into these things and especially with kids,

we go into the situation with. This is what I need to teach

this style because it's child's. Only saw this child, not doing

the right thing or whatever, it's about, but even as a

leading, you go into it, thinking I've got to get this

person to be more productive of. I've got to get this bad rather

than going into it to actually listen to what.

They want, which means that at the end of their piece, whatever

they have said, you've got to give that little Gap.

Well, you don't have to give the Gap, but if you think to

yourself what do they actually want, how do they want me to

respond, then that makes you stop for long enough that you

actually give that Gap and you stop for long enough to actually

show them the respect right. Show them that you actually knew

are considering it and you're waiting for that thing to move

on. I don't know if you want little

tricks, I always have a glass of And I will often take a sip of

water before I respond because that, you know, just

automatically makes me slow down.

Which is a good way to just make yourself, do that.

And it's also good because you drink a lot more water that

paint you as well. Absolutely.

But yeah, doing that is really important, but I'll give you

another trick which I'm sure, you know, but if you're

face-to-face with someone and most important thing to do is to

touch them first, Because if you touch, someone humans have what

we call C fibers on their skin and we are in all societies.

We have some way of actually greeting people where, which

involves touch. So, in stoic societies, like

here and opening. Us course, we shake hands.

And of course, in Europe, they'll kiss each other on the

cheeks, but even the Inuits, because everything's covered

will rub noses because only bit of skin that's actually showing

and on our hairy skin, which is on our part, but which is on the

back of our hands. So, You shake hands, you touch

that or on your nose and your face and so on there's C fibers

which activate an area of our brain which releases oxytocin

and oxytocin actually makes us more open to actually make a

connection with the person and we're more willing to actually

trust the person so just giving someone a hit of oxytocin by

getting the snort, oxytocin will make them more trusting and

whoever they're actually talking to at that point in time more

likely to give the money if you're actually looking for

money. While it cooks for someone to

invest. Yes.

So actually just just shaking hands when you actually first

meet someone will make them more connected to you.

Make them more open and make more willing to actually have an

open conversation, feel connected to you because of the

oxytocin is released in their brain, making them more

connected to you. So it's a good way to start

before you do anything else. But then during the

conversation, if you can touch the elbow or does the arm or

whatever? Well actually keep that oxytocin

going and keep the conversation going and keep them more aware.

What? More open to making the

connection keeping that connection going in that regard.

Might it also be significant then how we feel in that

connection. Yeah, absolutely.

So making a connection with someone who's in a really bad

mood is it's virtually impossible to do, right?

You got to calm them down first before you can actually make

that connection. So if they're grumpy, if they're

in a bad mood, then yet that's going to be really difficult.

Although I work with schools, where I go in and talk to the

students, about their emotions, and how to control their

emotions and will not how to control emotions.

But how do I understand their emotions, how to react to their

motions to be aware and to slow down?

But also how to talk to other people.

And I always talk about the fact that, you know, we do little

role plays and stuff and it's you know, this person who sent

you a mean tweet and told you do that over there and you want to

talk to them, you know. So you're coming to the room and

they always walk. Grumpy and stomping ended up and

I'm like, do you know what happens when you do that?

And it's like, well that's how I feel.

It's like, yeah but that's also, you're transferring that to them

because emotions are contagious, right?

Because of our mirror system and a mirror neurons within our

brain. When you see someone looking

aggressive, you become aggressive too, because of the

fact you mirror, what they're actually doing.

So you start off this discussion where you'll want to talk to

them about something. In a really negative place

because they're going to get aggressive to so always walking

smiling and relax when you want to have a serious conversation

with someone which most people don't do because they're having

a serious conversation though walking with the serious face on

and they walk in with their you know this is where here I mean

business walk and sit in a way which is more aggressive because

they mean business. Whereas what you want to do is

to relax have a smile and do these things because that will

mimic in them and I feel more relaxed and I'll have serotonin.

So on released in the brain, which will make them feel more

relaxed and more likely to actually interact with you.

So, yeah, absolutely emotions. 100%, which is where we started.

Emotions will 100% affect how you can connect with someone,

how you can communicate with them, and how you can therefore

influence, what they're actually thinking and doing.

And in that regard, that all influences how we feel, think

it'll respond at our core. We all want to feel to National

things as human beings to feel loved and to feel like we

belong, Mark, I love that. We have this conversation today

and I really, truly want to welcome you as part of our

community here at the light inside.

Thank you. Thank you so much for creating

meaning for us today. I truly truly.

Appreciate you. Thank you very much, Chef.

It's been really, really, really fun and I hope people learn

something. And if not, I hope they just

Enjoy themselves because I definitely did was a great

conversation. Thank you, Mark, where can our

listeners go to find out more about you and your programs of

study? Yeah, Dad, he's potty stop dr.

Mark Williams.com such, they are my queens.com or my programs are

on land. Links to my research, I linked

to my new book that's coming out for the connected spacing, so

it's all on that one page which makes it nice and easy.

Such a great resource and I'm Overjoyed with making the

connection to this website and starting to dive into some of

that information. Mark thank you so much for

sharing that with us and thank you for being the beautiful

loving and kind glowing human being that you are.

Thank you very much for active. To think before we act never,

perhaps has there been a truer Axiom than this to pause linger

and Ponder. Allowing our natural emotional

responses to subside then consider with conscientiousness

openness vulnerability and ultimately Clarity our influence

is can easily shape and mold these perspectives.

So therefore, when we allow this space to pause and linger, we

envision even greater possibilities throughout our

lives. If you found this episode

meaningful, please share it with a friend or loved one, our crew

here at the light inside, we'll take a short break from our

production schedule. Next week to pause and reflect

on the freedoms, we cherish and honor, those who gave their

lives so that we may continue to enjoy these.

Freedoms will also be taking some time to recharge our

batteries and refuel our content vehicle so we can continue

creating thoughtful. High-impact messaging for you

will rejoin you the second week of July and as always we're

Grateful for you. Our valued listening Community.

This has been the light inside. I'm Jeffrey biesecker.

Grateful for you. Our valued listening Community.

This has been the light inside. I'm Jeffrey biesecker.

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