Openness: How Experiential Avoidance Closes us to More Expansive Life Experiences and Learning

This is the light inside, I'm Jeffrey. Biesecker Lee hurl had a secret, a secret, which filled her with guilt and shame, a secret, which nearly killed her as will soon find out speaking her truth. Not only liberated her from this guilt and shame, it's saved her life. You see Lee was living with the burden of discovering. Her husband had been living a hidden double life and as she clung to his secret. Her husband becoming emotionally abusive riddled with the guilt and Shane Lee was devastated, leaving her feeling hopeless, and immobilized in an effort to number self and block her painful suffering.

She shut out the world closing the doors, where others might have learned of her story and offered her compassion and loving support Society. Often tells us learn to bite your tongue to repress. What it is we feel inside and sometimes X as we shut out the world important stories. Go Untold. Some people are silenced by Long's what, others wish to protect the privacy of the ones they love upon closer examination. There are those who win forest with the unyielding, burden of harboring, a secret cannot bear.

The pressure in Judgment of public life. For many, an echo of their own fear, doubt and shame. Silencing them as a result we often with hold Secrets, which inhibit each of us from much needed healing. Even the Aeneas of White Lies often. Keeping us from fully connecting with others. Leaving gaping holes in our relationships, our most important stories often Untold as result of the impact of secrecy. The greatest lie. Incidentally, being the ones we frequently. Tell ourselves yet through a touching story and unique life experiences.

We hurl is changing how we view the simple art of truth-telling today. Lee and I discuss the role harboring see Secrets plays in our lives. A fact, none of us are immune from experiencing. Find out how when we return to the light inside,

Secrets, hold great power and sway over each of us, they divided us determine relationships in freezing, our development as individuals. Everyone has Secrets story from our past or present that we fail to share with others in his famous novel, Ulysses James, Joyce, reflects on this fact, and points out, Secrets, silent and Stony sip in the dark palaces of both our hearts Secrets weary. Of their tyranny tyrants willing to be dethroned Secrets. Have not only sparked the interest of riders but also scientists.

Nevertheless Decades of study into our struggle. With secret is revealed that they have an awesome. If paradoxal power to unite people, as well as dividing, researchers have defined secrecy as an intention to conceal information from one or more individuals. Harboring them is incredibly common, the average person S13 at any given time? However, secrecy is only recently started to receive more attention in our research. What is largely been neglected? So far are the consequences of secret. Endured both in their relationship between Scherer and receiver.

In this project, we aim to fill this Gap, author and tedx speaker. Lee hurl is here to relay how six words saved her life and why our secrets hold such immense power. Lee, I want to start our conversation with how we Define a secret, but that is interesting because there's many different types of secret. So, I think I Define, I personally Define a secret as something that you withhold and keep to yourself. So, there can be many different types of Secrets. Like, you know, innocent childhood fun ones or even Naughty ones.

If you were naughty kid, like me and, you know, smoking behind the school shed or things like that, and often they lose their impact with the passing of time Secrets do and we can forget about them. But then there are some secrets that we hold onto and they start to weigh heavy on us and it's those secrets that can really impact us in. In a negative way. So they're the ones I really want to talk about like, what looking at this angle of the definition of secrecy as an intention to conceal information.

You know, an intention to conceal starts the process to me, that's such a powerful Insight just that intention to conceal Tail. As you met, you do something as innocuous as sneaking behind the bleachers to sneak a little cigarette, you know as we're Youth. Some of the more kind of a honorary things, we might do growing up and be kind of withhold that intention to conceal from our parents. That's an interesting point for me to look at leaning in today as we start. You mentioned, the very interesting point about how the average person has up to about 13 at any given time.

Yes, this comes as somewhat of a surprising Revelation. It's interesting because you would think sacred is probably a really high Hard subject to research. I could imagine. And it was researched by the Colombian business school and they found that the average person had 13 secrets And it's those Secrets like when you think about it, it's I believe it's true. You think about it? There's all different types of secrets that we hold onto and, you know, it could be a secret with a best friend and things like that.

So do you know that 97 percent of us have had at least one, big secret that is weighed heavy and I think Need to look at when you just said, you know, the withholding, we really need to understand why we withhold and often we withhold due to guilt regret and the most poisonous thing is shame and that's what happened to me. Sometimes it's unclear just when something falls into that category of a secret, keeping us from bridging that divide between trust and well-being. I'm looking at that recent Columbia study, you know, we looked at that ourselves as we began research for this episode, it astounded me to see that there were 38 categories of Secrets, can you share more with us lie?

What some of these different categories of Secrets might be? Oh gosh, I can't even name. All of them are like, or remember them. There it is a lottery where it is.

In to keep some of those Secrets hidden within us. Exactly. You must be easier to just lead in it surrender. Let them go. Exactly. Exactly. So the different categories. There's so many of them. I think I myself Focus really on the ones that were the damaging ones and that's what I really wanted to. And more about and they're the ones that we really need to start talking about. If you look at it the it's more about the, you know, how much your mind wanders to these secrets. So the different categories of Secrets often with a lot of them, we do lose or forget about them or they lose their power over us with time but it's the Ones that weigh heavy on us.

And the reason why they weigh heavy on us, it's because the amount of times our mind wanders to them, and that can lead to rumination, and it's the rumination that I believe the seeds for depression, anxiety, and Suicidal Thoughts. Hmm. We often look at that intent to conceal. And we relate to, as protecting us, keeping them from murder harm. What about what we deem? Those little white lies. It's been a while eyes. Yes, yes, often way day in those little white lies. It's more about. Yeah, as you said protecting others don't want to hurt their feelings.

When you look at those little white lies, everyone has told a little white lie, its I'm stage in their life so then it makes the whole I concept of holding 13 Secrets, average person, holding 13 secrets. You realize well, that is Probably, right. I think very often sometimes on a daily basis. We use variants that cycle and don't even give Cadence to it something. As subtle as when someone asks, how does this dress look on me? Do you like my haircut and we might not necessarily find our preference in that.

Yeah, we feel that innate urged to show compassion and empathy with where someone else might alive. He ordered honor and protect him. You feel that could be somewhat of a slippery slope sometimes. Yeah. Objectively honor. Others. And compassion, when we say yes, I love the dress. Yes. Let's find some valid way to compliment the haircut. Yes. Where do we kind of cross that line? Sometimes might become a question when it does. It truly serve someone from our opinion that can be a somewhat treacherous ground.

Round To Tread upon sometimes. It can be a, he finds you. He typically the husband's always say, I'm not going there to tell a little white lie in that case, you know, to honor your wife, you truly feel. She is beautiful irregardless, you know. So perhaps it's not such a lie, to Simply honor her and say, yes, my dear, you are beautiful, no matter what. Yeah, exactly. So then it's like then away. Shifting more to, that's a little white lie and rather than a secret. So yeah, there's a really fine line there, isn't it?

He's a type of a secret because you're withholding information, really? We have been somewhat of a curveball, from where we set out today. But as we do research, and as we communicate through, where each Assets going to go, sometimes he's a little questions pop up. What if we look at that angle of a little white lie, we'll just leave that out there today. Having Secrets can result in negative consequences. Very often for The Secret Keeper. Sometimes that depression creeping up anxiety. Why is it that Secrets weigh so heavily?

Honestly, they weigh so heavily on us is because how often our mind wanders too. So the more your mind wanders to it, the heavier becomes and I don't know if you've ever held on to a traumatic secret but often look and I'm no professional in this area but often people hold on to a secret and they can bury it and bury it so deep that they actually don't recall it. But then, then it may be something that happens and will trigger that event trigger that memory. And it's then when their mind keeps wandering to it, that's when it really starts to play Heavy and they start to spiral into depression anxiety, and of course, is suicidal thoughts.

So it happened for me from here comes to mind looking at that idea of spontaneous thoughts, those what ifs we often cycle through. When we're going through that process of rumination and emotional reactivity, we get anxious. We start to say, what if I tell us, you know, what will happen as a result of this, sometimes that fear perpetuates a long's the cycle. Yes to feed us, but Is also another factor in it is the shame also can prolong it because we shame, it's a feeling of somehow. I'm deserving of this, whatever it may be, and you sit in that holding pattern of feeling, well, I deserve this, I'm a bad person, you know, this is what's meant to happen to me.

And it's until you start to speak out. You can't shift that shame until you start to speak out. You cannot begin to have your healing Journey or start to heal until you start speaking out. And often where there's a perpetrator you need to shift that shame to them, where it belongs, at the very feet of the perpetrator, not on your shoulders. Then it's not your shame to Bear most often. We look at that shame. Harboring Secrets, often creates that then to me becomes somewhat of an inhibiting factor for us to being more open and building relationships built in authentic.

Trust how then, can we shift some of that shame to build those relationships? That's a good question because that is the really, I think the hardest part is taking those steps to shift that shame. And it's the me the way I did. It was I said six words to really close girlfriend of mine which was I need to tell you something. Hmm. And I can tell you I held that secret for over 10 years and it wasn't until I said those six words that I started to shift that shame and started my healing Journey. So for me how to shift, That shame it's really about trying to find someone who you trust or that you believe you can confide in to whether it be a friend, family member colleague.

There's even places where you can confide anonymously, there's a poster secret. I don't know if you've seen that or aware of it on Instagram, a lot of people send in their secrets but I mean we our organization Meg heart people. And write in and share their secrets as well anonymously. But it's about dipping your toe in the water and taking that first step. And I believe for me saying, those six words, I need to tell you something was me. Dipping my toe in the water and also seeing what her reaction would be if she was open.

I felt she was and she was a safe place, but it was just like dipping that toe in the water and and I I could feel it that it was safe and it actually was the best thing I did. Because once I did that, I was able to start seeing things clearer processing, my emotions, these emotions that I had held on to these negative emotions that I had held onto for so many years, and just kept me in this trauma, holding pattern that I just kept continually circling in and actually spiraling down further. Live in a culture where dipping your toe in that water can be such a difficult first step.

We look at a culture whose messages about secrecy can be truly confounding. We look at the view sometimes where cultural norms once made shameful Secrets, out of. So many everyday events in life what we were able to authentically share and not authentically share to me even looking now in current culture, Are such things as sexual orientation gender identity, who, and what a person. Might feel themselves to be were once hidden and shamefully, buried their asses of coming out to me, become so relevant.

It's not for me to judge who and what another might be. But to Simply accept their truth without putting shame on them, to allow them to not withhold that as a secret, definitely. And that's The sad part as a culture, we've created that and I mean, geez, we've come such a long way, but we've still got a hell of a long way to go because it's so important to be able to create a culture for our children and our grandchildren, where people feel safe to be their authentic self and everyone has that, right?

Every single person has that right to be able to feel safe being their authentic. Self to discover that laid inside. Mmm, exactly. What's the key to a happy and fulfilling life? I think it's the fair showing up in up here, T and R Truth. We Fear besides, it's what I feel like this whole journey has brought me to contain the things that we think will make us, happy will not bring us Safety and Security, the end of the day, we are a sovereign energetic, being who has all the tools already on the inside.

It is within your fingertips, you can create the life that you want and the only person that is stopping you from creating that life is you for greeting? Transformation happens from deep within. We're all on the journey to discover the light inside that Beacon which guides us to live. Our truest most authentic self visit us at www.virtru.com, light inside dot u-s to find out more feel, we're moving into a culture where the assumption that telling Secrets, no matter how win. Or to whom is morally Superior, and most regards to keeping them that in and of itself automatically becomes Healing free.

It allows us to liberate that light inside. That's, it really does. And imagine, and this is what drives me imagine. If we created a culture where people were raised or children were were raised to speak.

They were raised to have a voice and not to have any shame carry, any shame, guilt or regret. Imagine the ripple effect that that could have on our society with mental health. It would just be incredible. And also with the cases of all different types of abuse and And when I say abuse, I don't just mean domestic violence. Sexual abuse or these are all kinds of abuse that he's out in our society every single day, like racism. There's, you know bullying. I don't know about you, but we've got a lot of bullying going on in our schools here in Australia in on our social media, social media, Even in our daily interactions as adults.

It seemed yes. With a greater frequency or we're acknowledging it with a greater frequency, so much of that, to me, gets pushed back into the dark. We frequently experience that reluctance to dip into the shadows and reveal our light. Looking at that, we often hear that phrase coming to A Moment of Truth where we acknowledge, what we are suppressing inside, then vulnerably surrender. Our need to cover our authentic selves respecting Those transition times Lee. Is there a methodology to finding acceptance while Breaking Free of the bonds of our secrets and starting the healing process?

Their methodology of Breaking Free Barry's? So I think I suppose we need to understand first where someone's at when they have been carrying a secret that has been weighing heavy on them. They've been as I said that in that Trauma cycle a holding pattern, they've been weighed down by all of these really powerful emotions that are so powerful that they can have such a negative impact on us. So it's really hard to see clearly. And so I think when you break your silence and you start to speak it starts to help you see.

Clearly it starts to get all of this weight. Wait, that's weighing you down off your shoulders and out of your mind. So you can start to see clearly and it's only when you start to see clearly, can you really be empowered to choose your own healing journey? And when I say healing journey, I think it's a journey of finding out who your true authentic self is. And I can honestly say I'm I'm 50 this year and it's only been the last few years that I've actually really found me. Hmm and house ads that but it's also a blessing that I've got there.

In due time, half a century Neely respecting transition times. You know we have to somewhat on or truthfully where we are on the ark or bell curve of that journey of where that process is simply unfolding for us. How do we break our silence while building and keeping emotional safety as we start to reveal our hidden secrets and our trip? If it's really important. And as I said, finding that person you can trust and I suppose this is for people out there as well, that are the ones that people come to and confide in.

I think the safest way to do that is when someone comes to you with a secret and says, I need to tell you something, it's really important that you understand, not to fix them just to be present. And to listen, I can't stress that enough because when someone has had that courage to break their silence and trust me, it takes enormous courage to break your silence. And when they've had that courage to do that, you want to support them and Empower them, and by doing, so you just need to be present and listen to them, not fix them because you can probably see clearly and go, oh, this is what you need to do.

You Need to leave your husband, you need to do this but you need to let them process those emotions that, you know, to have sometimes been there for a very long time, to be able to then come up with what they need to do to heal and that is the safe way. I believe to start your healing Journey. Does that make sense? Sometimes holding your tongue is the best way we can. Can hold space for another. The act of not fixing someone and simply allowing their truth to be there truth. You might be our greatest urge to overcome I-10.

You do as human beings, we feel like we're solution-oriented so often. Especially his parents. Yes. Especially as parents you know, we so often feel our responsibility is to guide him old this child rather than to allow their truth to shine. It's somewhat of a measure of condition belief that our role is to make sure every step of the way. We're determining that exactly. And it's like a fucking use rose in our book, carbon under pressure as a function. A fine example. And she really talks about this a lot and comes to the realization that that she's actually been making her daughter worse.

So Rose actually woke to find her daughter. Overdosed on sleeping tablets. Trying to end her life and she carries you through a few years of their journey and trying to peel back the layers to discover this secret, that her daughter. A safe. He had been holding on to for many years. That had just been destroying her and Rose was the mum and she was desperate to save her child. So she just kept trying to fix her when in actual fact. She was making her worse and she was pushing her away. And it wasn't until she realized that that she had to have faith in her daughter.

That she could find her own healing Journey that her daughter could actually start to spread her wings and process things and start to heal. Because when you're trying to fix someone, you suffocate them and you disempower them and when someone has been in some kind of abuse, the worst thing you could do is to disempower them, we need to empower them and support them in that process. Like the look at the wrong, some of our cultural biases play in that looking at abuse. Looking at anyone who's struggling with addictions as somewhat broken becomes disempowering.

We place that stigma on them, that as they're moving through these experiences, they're broken from a parental role. We can do likewise, even to ourselves in viewing ourselves as perhaps saying we're a horrible parent, we're letting the child down, we start to form our own stigmas and biases and how we view ourselves easing, those biases and stigmas surrounding Rounding telling the truth. I feel it becomes easier to imagine the greater impact claiming R-Truth has when sharing our stories within our families within our communities and as we go out and share them with the world.

Definitely and that actually brings me to another point. That so important about sharing our stories and our secrets is, you know, as a community or as a society we need to hear these stories. He's because how else do we know and understand what's really happening? How do we know what is happening in our Healthcare System? With our mental health system? How do we know what's going on in our legal system? Our education systems, if we don't start to hear these stories, we can't have those very conversations that start and lead to change.

So it's really important that we not only break our silence but we also share it. Sometimes that difficult truth is that difficult conversation to Simply say, I need to tell you something. I think that's such a great point to leave today. It is. It definitely is having those difficult conversations to me become so essential. How can we ease some of that difficulty in sharing these conversations with each other? I think we need to talk about it. I think we need to continue to talk about it and normalize it You know, and lose that stigma and I think that's why I started doing what I'm doing and started.

Meg heart was, you know, there was three main reasons was, first of all, to help people to start their healing Journey. Because as we said it, you know, they can't until they break their silence. But the second thing is to share those stories to help Inspire others to heal. And then the Third One is to really publicize it and speak out. So we can ignite those conversations that we need to have to lead to change to create a better Society because if we don't do that, we're just going to keep going down the same path.

We're on. Do you think expectations from your perspective? Play a role in sometimes? Blocking our ability to more authentically? Trust I think they can. Um, that's a really good question. I've never thought of it that way, and but really who's expectations? Are they are they the other persons or are they your expectations that you place on yourself because more often than not what we think people expect from us is not necessarily the case. It can often be our expectations that we've placed on us, I can be such a A slippery slope of Duality that we sometimes I feel just simply have to acknowledge and accept to surrender to and to allow that space to be sometimes definitely.

It's really important to and communique in our society today. Look at how we communicate behind the screen on messages. We need to be able to start communicating. More effectively. And that domain could take us down a whole nother Rabbit Hole. I think we're fortunate enough to have a conversation in development looking at the role that social personas play throughout our lives, throughout our social interactions. Yeah. Well, that conversation to address those more fully but that act alone. I'm gonna tiptoe up to it by saying what we very often see in the media.

What we very Often see social media. What we even see from others. Might just be the surface, What secrets lie below? That surface is a whole nother story. Definitely is, and that is so true. It is just the surface and it's so easy to portray what you want. That surface to look like and all too. Often we're living on that surface, you know? And We're not swimming down underneath and that's what's really important is, what's underneath not what's on the surface, and that's a really other big rabbit hole.

We can go down, that brings me back to where we've kind of started, some of our research as a team-- for this episode to Ulysses and the story of what's below. The surface that whole story of Ulysses in the sea, Is basically one big narrative explaining how we off to keep things from each other below the surface in a lot of regards. Now some we do that because it's a people believe or feel that it's easier to do that than go below the surface. When in actual fact, it ends up being well, can end up being so destructive and far, far worse.

Sometimes the greatest secret is that we keep maybe from ourselves. To simply just acknowledge the truth, that that light is always inside of us. Exactly essential that we look at what role bringing those moments of Truth into our awareness and diving into that process. Yeah. The row for me. When I break my silence, first of all, a heavyweight began to lift off my shoulders. And they literally started to feel lighter and surprising enough. I became so much Karma and my relationship with those who I started to confide in started to grow stronger.

So, I was able to get the comfort and the support that I really, really needed. But then I began to Shift the shame and the guilt where it belonged. So it was shame and guilt that rendered me silent. And as I said, where there's a perpetrator, it's so important to shift that shame and that guilt and place it where it belongs. Hold that person accountable and move it off your shoulders because it's not yours to bear. So, once I started doing In that I started to be able to leave my regret in the past and I was started to able to accept things that I could not change but then also start to be able to change things.

I could because my mind became so much more clearer. And those were the things that I started to need to do to move forward, to empower myself, to lead the life. I really, really wanted to lead But also the life that I deserve to lay, you know. So that's one thing I can't stress. Enough is breaking your silence even though it might feel like it's impossible to do at times. It's the biggest step. It's the hardest step. It takes a lot of Courage, but once you do it, you can start walking the path that you want to walk on.

There is no true secret to our humanness the truth is that path that we are human so often. I feel we approach the perspective of Life. What is the secret to something? As if everything is hidden from us. Yes, it's a little Divergent from holding personal information. Yes, but I feel sometimes we leverage that as human beings. Sometimes we feel things are hidden from our knowledge. When perhaps maybe they're not in the truth is right in front of us the secret to success Leo. Just for an example is there a true Secret in that if someone has that information?

What is their intent to withhold it? That's a big one eye. Tiptoe up to. A lot of times you have, the Curious mind that likes to look at things. Why do we do that? Why is human beings? When we do it in our marketing, do we say, learn the secret to X Y & Z. If we have that information to share with each other, what might be the intention behind that and withholding that truth. That's not one day answer today. I'm just going to throw that out between you and I in our conversation because I always find curiosity in that.

That's a interesting, because you can clearly see it's a big marketing. Employee. Yeah, you're definitely po halliburton's. Yeah, you definitely have bad. Is there a secret to success? I'm gonna put this out there. Is there a one secret to success there, you know, in order to discover that? First of all, we need to define success. Your success won't be the same as my success. My definition of success. So yeah. I think people can't tell you, I've got the secret to success because I don't believe there is one secret to success and if there were that secret would be your own truth.

Yeah, okay. Okay. That's good to see that if we know that truth from another, if we don't truly know it yet, let's set on that Journey. Oh, shine a light on, sometimes you guys really know it until you actually speak it.

We may be gone off on a big tangent with that one. But I like to throw that out there as we're talking about this and openness, you know, sometimes the secret is just our own withholding of that intention. It is it can't be and you know what? That's fine. There's not all secrets are bad. It's just those ones that Impact us negatively that we need to be mindful of and aware of find the courage in a way to break our silence. And as a community, I think we need to support people to do that as well.

We owe it to ourselves. We owe it to our children. We need to start encouraging a culture by where we speak. We speak out. I can't banging on about that. Is our golden nugget, I feel today, I knew there was something. We were leaving on the table Lee. And I think that Was the gold nugget. The kind of brings things altogether today, so thank you. Honesty and openness are always the foundation for insightful dialogue being sensitive to those. We interact with allows us to more effectively communicate building authentic and trusting relationships up.

Next we talk with William Allen being a highly sensitive person he discusses, how we can become more open while being more sensitive toward others.

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What do a legal term in a popular book title have in common when it comes to avoidance and making broad assumptions the surprising answer. Openness author Margaret Hefner and in tells us open this isn't the end it's the beginning. An often overlooked core value and asset. Openness is one from which we can leverage our abilities to empower, a more aware view of the world in developing a more expansive life experience from within Openness can also bring about new adventure and exciting New Opportunities For Learning.

There are six facets or Dimensions involved in expressing. Openness be seen how an active imagination aesthetic, sensitivity attentiveness to inner feelings and a desire for variety or Adventure is often advantageous in also essential and expressing a more authentic sense of being, including intellectual curiosity in the ability to question it. The word, a state known as psychological liberalism. These factors having undergone extensive research to which we can draw effective. Conclusions illustrating, how these facets are qualities.

All being significantly correlated examining how openness can be considered a global personality trade with cluster together. These traits provide, a greater understanding of how open this brings about effective change throughout our lives. During the past, decade research on the biological basis of sensory. Assessing sensitivity or SPS genetically-based rate associated with greater sensitivity and responsiveness to environmental and social stimuli as burgeoning dr. Elaine in Aaron, is an American clinical research psychologist and author.

Aaron has published numerous books and scholarly articles about inherent temperament and interpersonal relationships focusing, especially on the subject of sensory processing sensitivity. This Research begins with her book. The highly sensitive person which has sold over a million copies sensory processing sensitivity describes a set of human population. That is most influenced by environmental factors sensory, sensitivity refers to how aware an individual is with regard to each of their sensory channels sight.

Sound taste smell touch and pain. All individuals have varying degrees of sensitivity and have varying ways of outwardly. Responding and expressing their awareness of these sensitivities these sensory channels serving as our neural Pathway to discovering the world around us and how we relate to it in relationship as researchers. Try to characterize this trait. It is still unclear. How SPS is distinct from seemingly related, clinical disorders, which have overlapping symptoms such as sensitivity to the environment and Hyper responsiveness to incoming stimuli.

The concept is sensitivity has gained Traction in the years since Aaron conceived of it, particularly as more, and more people begin to self-identify as highly sensitive overall. About 15 percent of the population are thought to be highly sensitive. Highly sensitive persons are thought to be more Disturbed than their peers by violence, tension and feelings of being overwhelmed. As a result, they may often make concerted efforts to avoid situations in which such things. Likely to occur. When the more positive end of the trait, High sensitivity is thought to be linked to higher levels of creativity, Richard personal relationships and even a greater appreciation for beauty.

William Allen is such a person. Educating others about the day-to-day experiences of highly sensitive individuals lives with the heart of a writer. In the mind of a researcher bill, you experienced a rather unique trait that only about 15 to 80% of the population, possesses called sensory processing sensitivity or also known as HSP or highly sensitive person. Can you share a bit with us about your experience with these traits? It's actually probably about 20% I've ever seen as high as 30, but I stick with 20, I think 20 is a good number.

So we look at that. How do we learn from that? 20 percent that has this gift of a trait in some regards to be more Active to be more open to be more sensitive than others, to be more attuned, to those environmental cues that become the Hallmark of that condition. That's automatically a where we'd like to look at. You not only have a deeper understanding of that and a very unique experience of it. You also have that view to turn outwards, now to offer to others and say these things do come to like the, some others might not be attuned to.

So how do we guide others to become more attuned? To those things are absolutely going through a process of kind of answer your questions and so forth to going with your team. I was intrigued by this concept. Was typically part of the things that I've been doing is trying to educate people about this trait. But there's always been this underlying theme that and this is something the dr. Elaine are in talks about is this is an evolutionary quality and the quality is that nature makes in this trade of high sensitivity and I think it's almost like nature is fake it in as a kind of a row.

Model for others to follow. In other words, we're talking about earlier the biases that we have. We see so much of that today, there's a lack of empathy, people are always clamoring for saying, we need more empathy, but a lot of times people don't know what that is or how to do that. Where highly sensitive people wired, almost Wired from Earth to be like that. So even though many don't know about the trait, they don't even know that there's such a thing as this personality trait sensory processing, Sensitivity.

The idea is that they inherently know they're different. And I'm not talking about magical people that have been sort of birth from nature, but they are wired to be more like those things that you're talking about being aware of other people being aware of our differences, being able to be attended to that. And also, to be attentive to the environmental changes that are going on, not only in the planet, but just in interpersonally, with people, in Behavioral Science, sociopathology is Study of Personality factors that are somewhat out of regular Consciousness or situational awareness, this leading to behaviors considered outside the norm, especially in a particular social group.

It's often felt interaction with negative experiences. Increases the risk of sociopathology. This is perhaps, when we often engage in experiential, avoidance as individuals, Bill, what effect does our environment and situational awareness, have on our ability to be Become more sensitive to the driving motivational factors of other individuals. We get, everybody has sensitivity couldn't exist without it because the real gist of this sensory processing. Sensitivity Falls up underneath this larger theory about environmental sensitivity and that is all about how the organism reacts to the environment.

Okay? So everybody, everybody has a degree of sensitivity and that's how you exist. You have users. Sensory mechanisms that you have to be able to perceive the environment to be able to live and exist in the environment. And that's really what sensitivity is. And that's that's what the science is saying. That this is a spectrum sensitivity. Is it stopped their highly sensitive people and everybody else but highly sensitive. People are more impacted by the environment because of their sensory wiring and how they process sensory information.

That doesn't mean everybody else can't be that as well. Be more empathetic. And so, So forth. So that's the one thing I always like to try to be very clear about that. I don't see highly sensitive people as being kind of a shoebox by themselves. That it's we're all part of a great humanity. And sensitivity is part of that. So let's look a little bit at that experience. First of, how do we start to understand as an individual? Discovers, they might be a highly sensitive individual. Let's start there, you know, because some of these trades go undiscovered or they start to surface in various ways.

As a highly sensitive individual yourself, where do you start to form that awareness? Well, as I said earlier, I think a lot of highly sensitive people are aware that in some ways, they are different than other people, they see things differently, they perceive things differently, they process things differently, but they don't have anything to attach it to a chip. Eclis, what happens is they're growing up, they're labeled as being quote unquote, too, sensitive too. Emotional to hypersensitive. To criticism etc, etc. And then this General label of sensitive which in many times as a pejorative tone to it, this is what they identify with what's happening is that more and more people are becoming aware of the trade, just through social media through Outreach has more books are being written so forth.

And so on, this is part of what I do is go out and I try to get on two different podcasts and venues to talk about it because they're going to be a segment, your audience, and every other That's going to have gone through this kind of thing, and feel, isolated and alone. And I think what they need to do is realize that if they have these traits, these can attribute. So if I sensitivity that there are a lot more people out there than they realize they have the same thing and there's a lot more information than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

When this was just sort of becoming to think from that perspective. To me, I looking Inward and saying, where do we start to recognize? Not only as we stigmatize this experience and view it from our biases. He's, we're also doing that and very many potentially harmful areas of Our Lives. We look at the role as you mention, toxic masculinity, where do we start to form some of the astigmatism 's biases on either side of the fence. Let's look at how we deconstruct that. Yeah, it's a toxic masculine.

I hate even using the term. Frankly, it's become popularized last few years but it's almost radioactive itself because when you say, Are you immediately light up after given population? Because the assumption is that all men are toxic and all men are toxic because they're masculine and that's really not the case at all. What I like to come from the angle, like to come from. Is that masculinity, I think is by and large, a social construct. We've all agreed somewhere in the past, but this is what men are supposed to do and, and they're supposed to act this way and, and Not act this way and so forth.

And I think the science is showing that the strict old traditional views of masculinity are not only toxic for other people who experience some of the downfall of that. But it's also toxic for men, you know, men don't ask for help, they don't ask for assistance, they don't go out and get the help. They need that very often manifests itself and aggression aggressive behavior towards their Emily's towards other people so that toxic masculinity part is really in my opinion. It's like a coat that men where it's emasculating as we know it as a coat that we wear, it doesn't make every man toxic.

But the idea is that this is a good time, I think of the history of the world for us to let's break it down. Like you said, deconstructed a little bit, let's revise it. And if it's if it's like a costume that we wear, then you could always tailor it for something else, you can always resize. Sighs it. You can always look at different ways and being more inclusive about what masculinity really means. Yeah. I think, from that perspective, we look at the level of sensitivity sometimes in how we're simply perceiving.

Are we objectively looking or are we starting to discern things? There's a fine balance there, sometimes by simply saying men do this, you know. Well, we automatically start to lump sum all men into that ball of clay. Without sensitivity to considering some men, do some men don't the Spectrum here is Broad and wide, right? Because we started doctor in your little boys when they're very young, and one of the main things that you hear. And I know because I experienced it, I grew up in a little bit in the 50s but mostly in the 60s and 70s, you know, Boys, Don't Cry.

Don't cry. You're going to become a girl. If you cry, your become less than a man or the idea that as a man, you're 45 years old. You're supposed to be a man at that time. That's I heard that quite a bit grow up and be a man, right? And I like the idea use of sensitivity is a kind of a perceptual thing, because I think we focused on sensitivity is being that a heightened perception of what's going on and then an awareness internally about what you perceived, that's what makes Sensitivity. I think more of a gift more of a tool or something that we can use in, there are a lot of Highly sensitive men out there who have heard over and over again.

I just read an article this morning, some guy from Great Britain had written an article about being too sensitive, right? That's the way they're labeled. But what you say that about a tool or a measuring device that oh my this is too sensitive. I measure too much information about what you're looking for is Precision in the first place. So that's why I say this is a lot about how we perceive ourselves. You know, in relation to how other people have seen sensitivity, and I think that's a very good point.

You're making, is that that shift can take place internally and specially insensitive people to help other people see that as well and see those qualities in themselves. The ability to to be aware of things to buy perception and starting to absorb that and thinking grow up and be a man that in, and of itself is just a very vague General statement. Yes, you know, a you're born male anatomy, you know, it's a male anatomy because I'm being more sensitive to a broader view, right? Of gender identity.

I've experienced individuals firsthand that. I know personally who say I was born with this Anatomy but inside and on a spiritual level on an inner being level identified with the other, I felt the other it's not for me to judge because At therefore, then becomes insensitive to how someone else's perceiving feeling and experiencing their reality moving past, those biases to me. Absolutely. Yeah. And I have also experienced that as well as you were talking about and it's opened my eyes, it was a family member and it changed my perspective.

So, you're right about this sensitivity to others and where they're coming from and I think highly sensitive people particularly Lee because we are sort of born with this trade of being able to have a certain heightened, sensitivity to the environment. Need to first of all shift, our own biases about against our self based on cultural norms that we've been told to seeing this is being a gift that it is and B if it's utilized and wielded as a gift then it becomes a tool that we can share right? And we share with other people.

Let's look a little bit. If we will what some of these Substantial traits are of highly sensitive people that differentiate them in their ability to experience. Well, I'm going to go with and I always use this but this is dr. Errands definition. I want to stick with more of the science and the evidence base definition, she is as an acronym called does Geo AES. And there are four main characteristics that come as a result of that. And these are pretty much widely across the sensitive Spectrum. You talking about a billion and a half people, you're gonna have a lot of Visual differences but these four characteristics pretty much stick with sensitive people.

That is depth of processing. What I was talking about earlier about how we process information on a very deep level, almost kind of think where they philosophers of the human species because we take information Deep dive with it. Sometimes over think sometimes ruminate too much but the reality is that we take a really very close time. Consuming CPU, intensive. Kind of, look at things. So that's something that's very characteristics of high sensitive people. The second letter is the oh and that's over stimulation and overwhelm.

These are things that happened on only sensitive people. If you're processing all that information if you're Gathering data and I like to look at it like this, if you look at it, a turn on a camera, the more wide open it is the more like you're getting in, that's what happens with highly sensitive people. I don't think our senses are better but I do think that we have inside the Brain, a filter that is more open and we get more data which tends to lead to overstimulation and the need to have some downtime recoup time that kind of thing.

So that's something you see a lot of times in highly sensitive people and people see that as a weakness. When in fact it's just trying to recover from handle this stimulation. The third letter is p and that stands for emotional reactivity or emotional depth of processing, which we are very Creatures, I think because we process emotion of much deeper level things, move us more, we fall in love, eat more deeply and easily, you know, and things affect us in a very emotional way. The other half of that e is empathy.

Highly sensitive people are very empathetic people. That's why sort of tying into the things that we've been talking about this point that they're sort of natural ambassadors for kindness and empathy and understanding. Because we're Wired that way. And so we are more empathetic and then the last letter is the S, and that's I call it sensory. Acuity dr. Aaron calls. It sensitivity to the subtle in the environment. So we pick things out, we find things it. Other people are missing because again our filters a little bit more open.

So you combine all four of those things. That's probably the best definition that's out there right now, for what highly sensitive people are and what they're about. And their attributes. No, left those phrases, you're bringing in, like, Lynn's filter aperture. They all have significant meaning in the regard of how we view things, emotional aperture, being how we measure our emotional response to environmental cues and situations looking at frame of reference as the lens reviewing life through being more open and sensitive in that regard, one thing that I feel so we can vastly learn and potentially improve upon as we.

Observe highly sensitive individuals that natural ability. Highly sensitive people can take up the mantle on this once they learn and are comfortable with the trait. And I think that requires some self-education and some self-awareness but to become sort of ambassadors for these other things about what the world desperately needs right now, which I think is more empathy, kindness compassion and understanding about, The others that are out there others than us, you know, as we always look at the world and kind of compartments and buckets to find out that we're really quite all connected, and we're all quite alike in our different ways.

So, this is where I think highly sensitive people can step up, they can do it locally, they can do it globally wherever it is, but once you have that understanding and you shift your mindset from being, okay? I've got this. And it's been weird all my life and I don't fit in and whatever. Over to realizing, okay. I, you know, a lot of people and I sense of people use the term superpower. I, you know, I guess I like to think of it as a gift, right? It's something that we can use and it's a tool and I think we can use that reach out into the world and talk about these things.

We look at that and differentiate what's baked in or innate. You know, born trait being the mechanistic understanding, that's a big word mechanistic it's just simply the structure that's there, the foundation of who Are what we are genetically and spiritually and physically. And then what we learn or becomes our mind State, you know, mindset is the mindset a certain thing or we sensitive to being open of our simple mind. State becomes functional understanding, were learning a specific trait and action in that regard.

We're learning a specific tools, specific skill beyond what we innately have inherited. Exactly. And that shift that, I think that needs to take place with highly sensitive people. I think, is going to Bear some fruit. I think that is an important next step for, especially for people who are highly sensitive again, going back to that topic, and then is that, once, they understand the trait, what's their become aware of it, once they see it in a positive light. Now, what now, what do we do, right?

And for a lot of people that's that is a ponderous task to think about what am I going to do here? How am I going to affect the world in a positive way? And that's that next step that I think a lot of highly sensitive people are going to need to be taking as this sort of spreads about the the trade for those people who have this, how they can be models. And again, this isn't just about highly sensitive people stepping up. We need the entire population of the planet to start owning into some of this things as well.

But you know, from my perspective, what I've written about, it's typically about highly sensitive men who have kind of a double Jeopardy situation here, one, there are sensitive and their men and the cultural norm for men is, don't be sensitive. No matter what, that's the worst thing you can be sensitive, right? And that's the unfortunate reality. In a lot of these guys have to deal with, is there going to be dealing with the challenges of the trait learning to managers? And those challenges can definitely be managed.

It's just being aware that you have this. And the other part is where do I go out there and I can relate to other men. Many of whom are Are looking for some way to say, you know what, it would be nice. If I could show more emotional feelings, I could get and become more exposed, more vulnerable. I could ask for help, I could do all these things. That's where I think, highly sensitive men can really help other men is to learn to be able to do those kind of things. And when you have that opening right, for men who have kind of blocked, that what happens is they begin to realize this sensitivity that they have.

Have an awareness of other people and the others that are out there that they thought were disconnected from them, how well that works. But the idea is that it's a way of freeing and liberating men from this sort of confining definition of what a man should be in, could be to me, this is the most powerful lesson we can learn as we sit back and open to those who are moving into a new embracement of their gender identity, and their gender perspective. When we get out of the way of some of those cluttering views, some of those weeds we've allowed to grow in our Garden of Life, we can see where those patterns become inhibiting.

A lot of times where we create those very subjective views that start to form us into a little bit of a pigeon hole that start to form the stigmas. This start the form, all of those limiting beliefs in order. I think that's the key word limiting because it does not allow men to be fully expressive human being. Things emotions are a human trait, right? Having emotions as human trait. And a lot of people are concerned that as you were talking about earlier, gender identity, that they're thinking, well, you know, you're confusing.

Everything you're going to confuse the world. We're going to be suddenly become completely androgynous and there's no difference between men and women, right? As if suddenly we've discovered that we were completely aware of everything. Yeah, exactly. Not already somewhat confused about a lot of stuff. Exactly, exactly. So I think that the way I like to phrase it as would be just become more human, right? Being a human being should be our number-one objective. How you express your identity from that point on is going to be highly individual.

And that's why I say that if we're going to do a redefinition on masculinity at some point, it isn't the throw everything out. There's a lot of positive things about that men are and have been and that And he shouldn't be forsaken simply because we want to reinvent the wheel. The idea here is that we need to be more inclusive though as to what a man can be. And and I think that part of it ties to that being human. I think that is such an essential message today. Bill just simply allowing that Sacred Space at sacredness of place to be who and what you are to be authentic to that identity to be authentic to that sense of self were creating and then Also authentic to that self less being.

It's just simply that energy Being Human and we are all those things. Where individuals are? We're part of a collective. Hey, we're all connected again. Yeah, I feel that process in and of itself, just taking your time to become aware of taking the time. Perhaps to see how in a positive way I can see where I'm at and where you're at, not to compare contrast not to form a differentiated not to divide, but Simply to hold that perspective to Simply observe where you might be, where I might be exactly, and honor, those differences.

Absolutely. And again, everybody has sensitivity you couldn't exist without it because the real gist of this sensory processing sensitivity. Paul's up underneath this larger theory about environmental sensitivity and that is all about how the organism reacts to the environment. Okay, so everybody, everybody has a degree of sensitivity and that's how you exist. You have use your sensory mechanisms that you have to be able to perceive the environment to be able to live and exist in the environment.

And that's really what sensitivity is exactly. The point. I find myself and I think perhaps that is are highlighting point today. Seth Godin tells us at the heart of art is learning to see in the same way in learning to live then discovering how to see the beauty in everything. Very much of what we learn is guided and informed by how we feel and what we believe after. All Learners and leaders may agree that a greater sense of openness based on authenticity and vulnerability makes our relationships flourish whether with ourselves or as we can Necked with others.

As we consider how we become more open. Our mental Outlook becomes a key. Differential element setting their space, Perhaps, as we consider the inevitable fact, our mental models are deeply ingrained images of how we see the world, how each of us react in different scenarios and situations after Peterson's developed, the ladder of inference in the Fifth Discipline field book as an effort to illustrate, how each of us engages critical thinking as individuals. Cinge asserts that learning organizations require a new view of leadership.

He sees the traditional view of leaders Especial people who set the direction, make key decisions in energize the troops as deriving from a deeply idealistic and non-systematic worldview held. Perhaps, as rather simplistic Frameworks are applied to other complex systems. We tend to focus on the parts rather than the whole and fail to see. Ization as a dynamic process in the as a result, missing the bigger picture in life. Since states, that every important decision we make, usually going through this cycle with each of us, taking actions based on our beliefs adopting beliefs around the world, building conclusions drawing assumptions.

Based on meaning, adding meanings both, culturally and personally selecting information and observing our experiences. As a result of this conclusions based on our beliefs and assumptions are usually obvious to us, but we often jump to them frequently, missing steps and objective facts. We can see this. When we meet someone for the first time, in our mental models, greatly influence, how we perceive them as we, observe their words, their expressions in their reactions. And by extension these mental models, then influence our thoughts and reactions within each situation.

Getting how we behave, how we speak. And even our subconscious mannerisms, as a result that first meaning can make for a pleasant first impression or an embarrassingly regrettable occasion mental models and Frameworks. The give people a representation of how we believe the world Works. They form are constructs of how we see reality. And yet, sometimes how we see this reality is somewhat flop, the state called foundational attribution errors, Using information which is fresh in our brains is serves as a major, you stick to gauge life.

And again rather than being more objective and taking into consideration, the integrative complexities of life or constructs are very frequently rooted in these attribution errors in conjecture or assumptions. It's easy to draw this conclusion. Sensitivity can be an essential tool in building, our connectedness to the self, and it's a highly beneficial. And ship device fortifying, our connection to others as well. We return now, to that legal term, we mentioned earlier, willful blindness legally, speaking the term willful blindness refers to the practice of a person intentionally oblivious to fax, it would render them liable for wrongful acts.

It's perhaps the in safe to assume willful. Blindness might hinder us from becoming more open. This openness means drawing no conclusions. As we simply look at everything, the way it is freeing us of assumptions assumptions. Which often lead to disagreement in Discord. Is it possible? We sometimes simply agree to disagree in her book. Willful blindness, why we ignore the obvious at our peril? Oh Margaret Hefner ninh argues that the biggest threats and dangers. We Face are the ones. We don't see not because they are secret or invisible but because we're willfully blind, she examines the phenomena and traces, its imprint in our private and working lives as well as within governments, and organizations and asks, what makes us prefer ignorance?

What are we afraid of and why do some people see more than others it then becomes Is essential to ask ourselves. How can we change upon closer examination, perhaps by becoming more open to the infinite potential in all things opening to an expanding and Limitless Universe a universe, which is interconnected. This has been the light inside. I'm Jeffrey biesecker.

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